Thursday, June 28, 2018

Golwalkar’s argument of Hindutva is fallacious

Your attempt to include consciousness in physics is laudable. However if it is in conflict with well-established physics, personally, I would be very hesitant, not that such attempts should be put down.
Best Regards. kashyap

We are taught in science  to be flexible about all ideas.  We do not believe in something only because it is written in books! The whole formalism of modern physics, Born rule, superposition etc. have been checked by experiments hundreds of times. Please read a book on modern physics when you have time.

About consciousness you have a point. Science has not succeeded as yet to produce a believable model of consciousness. That is why I am willing to patiently hear ideas floated around by Rishis thousands of years back. I would not be so patient if they said something in contradiction with firmly established ideas of modern physics about matter. As I have remarked in my article, on philosophical level, ideas of eastern religions like Hinduism and Buddhism are astonishingly close to modern physics. But we should be willing to let scientists try different ideas on consciousness. That is the scientific spirit. Do not reject a hypothesis before verifying its consequences!
Hopefully, these arguments will be satisfactory to you.
Best Regards. kashyap

Classical mass is taken as a given property in all QM equations. No questions asked!! All eigenstates are supposed to have same masses. Energies are usually different but the mass (more precisely rest mass in relativity) is fixed. There is a relativistic relation E^2=c^2*P^2 + M(0)^2*c^4 which is always used, E=energy, P=momentum, M(0) is the rest mass measured in particle’s rest frame. M(0) is usually called mass and is given in tables. Superposed states can have different energies, not different masses. Currently, mass is a specific property of a particle and particles are identified and tabulated as having specific masses. Mass is measured by motion in electric and magnetic fields. There is no quantum mechanical measurement of mass.

The story of bare mass is somewhat subtle. Bare mass is usually infinite and it is pretty much theoretical concept since we cannot observe an electron without its electric field. One way to visualize is , as Avtar  also pointed out, is that electrostatic energy e^2/r becomes infinite for r = 0. All these factors are supposed to give infinite answers in calculations before renormalization. Renormalization is adjusted to give measured mass given in tables! Currently we cannot calculate masses.

The story of Higgs field is even more subtle. It is believed that all particle leptons ( particles in the class of electrons) and quarks had zero mass M(0)  to start with even after they acquired charges. Interaction with Higgs field gave rise to different masses. Why, is still an unanswered question!  Photon remained as zero mass particle.

I trust this will finally clarify puzzle of masses. As I said there is a guaranteed Nobel prize if someone can calculate masses of elementary particles!
Best Regards. Kashyap
Visit this group at
To view this discussion on the web visit

Remembering Bankim Chandra Chattopadhyay, the man who gave us ...

India Today-27-Jun-2018
Vande Mataram has been India's national song since 1937. Sung by generations of Indians to evoke the motherland, the song was written by Bengali writer ...

Netaji Subhash Chandra Bose: Feared Even in Captivity by Santanu ...

Free Press Journal-23-Jun-2018
Interestingly, the book points out, “After Bal Gangadhar Tilak, Sri Aurobindo, and Lal Lajpat Rai, only Gandhi and Subhash Chandra Bose remained truly Indian ...

Bhubaneswar schools impart organic farming education

Daily Pioneer-25-Jun-2018
Sri Aurobindo Integral Education Centre, Khandagiri, seeks to spread awareness on the importance of growing and consuming safe and healthy food among the ...

Assorted tweets for general information:

Indians still want a paternalistic state. Indians distrust private enterprise. @AKanisetti elaborates on the findings of recent surveys: https://t.co/DwEdNXva1e

Why is liberalism failing? A new book asking this question sidelines key causes and concerns https://t.co/a8ifwr2Pod https://t.co/SQFDoI1X21

How history was morphed to glorify Manmohan Singh as the sole architect of 1991 reforms while painting P V Narasimha Rao as a reluctant, indecisive and often communal Brahman.
When India’s history is truly written, without any influence, the role of PVNR will be right up there, above Nehru, Indira Gandhi and Manmohan Singh. He literally walked into a disaster in the making, as India was on the brink of an economic catastrophe.  https://t.co/AXANwVC4Wq

@TrulyDesi_Me it is another myth perpetuated by secular frauds. A Canadian monk Ishwar Saran has written an explosive book "The Myth of St Thomas of Mylapore". Please do read. If you can't find the book ask me for a copy  https://t.co/aIAlsR22DQ

Final replug of my guftagoo with @anuraag_saxena & @jsaideepak where we solve all the major problems ailing the RW today. https://t.co/mlV6ErHg9H

Nietzsche's writing style — aphoristic, polemical, funny, scathing — grew out of a belief that readers want to be provoked, amused, and annoyed. https://t.co/22MHvL8Cvo

On the  Kabir Jayanti politicization of Kabir:
Re up: Your Kabir and mine https://t.co/xrQc3RJKWv via @IndianExpress

RSS’ aversion to media lends it a sense of mystery but also makes it vulnerable to calumny. Ratan Sharda’s book on the Sangh is an attempt to remedy this, and is worth the time if you want to know the real RSS. https://t.co/fg7x194F1c

Primacy of languages should be recognised and States of India must get Sovereignty by abolishing the Central Govt. #SriAurobindo spoke of #WorldUnion and a Confederation of South Asian States will be catalyst. Modi can be an instrument of Evolutionary forces to turn a Gorbachev.
It's for the local people to defend themselves by forging suitable alliances. Such bulwark will grow organically. Besides, there is no need to paint a dismal image of China; it's also bound by many international restrictions and commitments. Sri Aurobindo has foreseen Federation.
I confess that my articulations are more philosophical than conforming to geopolitical apprehensions. But I stick to it based on my intense attraction for Odia and Sri Aurobindo's forecasts. Creation of Bangladesh and disintegration of USSR remain examples of China's irrelevance.

UPA govt was under the grip of foreign powers and Modi govt is yet to give clear signals of having a mind of its own or moving with its own strength. Yet, it needs a second term to stand on its own feet and also rid the party of the pernicious legacies of Savarkar and Golwalkar.

Lending support to Modi govt is the best possible course right now in order to oppose Congress as well as RSS. Hindutva commands a poor share of electoral dividends and hence is bound to be jettisoned. Nehruvian consensus similarly needs to be replaced by #SriAurobindo's "Dreams"

Modi govt must be distinguished from BJP, RSS, or even Modi himself. Apart from overseas lobbies, domestic top industrialists are part of decision making. So it pursues status quo with a few surprises. But overall full marks for Democratic environment and freedom for all sections.

People and not territory should be the focus in the modern world. They must decide under which govt they want to live; imposing grand narratives is counterproductive. What's the use of a large nation if people feel alienated or unhappy; perpetually harbour an inferiority complex?

Thanks for categorically spelling out crucial differences between Golwalkar and Upadhyaya. I haven't read the latter in original but have heard that his formulations are indebted to Sri Aurobindo to some extent. Hope you deal with this aspect in course of the thread. #SriAurobindo https://t.co/XDHQQOmK5T

Scholars like @RajivMessage follow the Dharmic Abrahamic contrast but it leaves out the long and rich tradition of Western philosophy and the great rishis it has produced. Heraclitus, Schelling, Bergson, Whitehead, Deleuze, et al need to be read to fully appreciate #SriAurobindo.

Religion tends to be mechanical and materialistic and hence The Mother & Sri Aurobindo added the Vedic emphasis of transformation by way of adventure of consciousness leading to Immortality. Young Indians must internalise this aim irrespective of present aptitude or enthusiasm.

Many valuable information are shared but it's difficult to retrieve them later. There is a need for a site to provide links to books and articles that demolish such fake stories and false claims. For instance, @pranasutra has posted a list of useful books https://t.co/l0lvORkOwK

beware of 'experts'. most of them are compromised by #deepstate, #vatican, #saudi or #xinhua. some are also in the payroll of #bigpharma, #bigfood, etc. here the angle is not commercial gain but the reinstatement of #antonia #maino as empress of india. https://t.co/Q3worYHs2t

बाबा रामदेव संघ और पुँजिपतियों का दलाल है स्वदेशी के नाम पर जनता को इमोशनल ब्लेकमेल कर अपना औद्योगिक सम्राज्य खड़ा कर रहा है भाजपा सरकार की दलाली कर बाबा UP,MP,महाराष्ट्र सहित कई राज्यों में करोड़ों अरबों की जमीन कौडियों के भाव अवैध रूप से हथिया रहा है!

The tradition of dissent must be celebrated because it allows us to see an imagined future, an alternate vision or the possibility of the dissenting opinion being resurrected on a future day.
@SatyaPrasoon on Justice Chelameswar as the dissenter: https://t.co/ylGTeKIu7x https://t.co/loVn4NnC4U

The Price of Feminism. It neglects duty and commitment.  https://t.co/uWl3JO6zhv

The recent false representation of the status women in India notwithstanding, Indians still need to look at how women were put on a pedestal, performing multiple duties and were not treated like commodities as they are in this sense-driven modern world. https://t.co/0tf0nyPDnb

Today is the Jayanti of Bankim Chandra Chatterjee the man who composed Vande Mataram, one of the greatest Indian writers of the modern era, noted for his strong female characters, and inspired the Bengali Renaissance. https://t.co/nN2Yv1mVCy

282a. Although Madhav Golwalkar’s perceptions, forming the ideology of the Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh, were clear and unwavering, and many of his propositions indisputable, they suffer from several infirmities, at least three of them touched also with profound irony. 1/n
282b, (1)  Golwalkar attributes to the introduction of Western isms into Indian polity its present disorder. But, despite his opposition to building India’s future on the foundations of Western political thought, 2/n
282c. the core of his own teachings in that regard lies in those very foundations, the concept of ‘nation’, with ‘nationalism’ as its derivative, providing their two most decisive ingredients. n/n
283a. But ‘nation’ and ‘nationalism’ form no part whatever of the traditional Dhaarmic thought, any more than that they do of Christianity and Islam. The idea of ‘nation’ itself as a self defining principle, 1/n

289. (iv) Rejecting the possessive individualism of liberalism and democracy, Golwalkar ascribes to ‘nation’ an individuality that is far more possessive, and infinitely more dangerous. 1/n
292. (v). Golwalkar’s glorification of nation comes from the teachings, not of Dhaarmic thinkers, but those of Johann Gottfried von Herder (1744-1803), with whom begins the German romantic movement. 1/n
301.  It is only that at no time in its very long history had Dharmic civilisation made even remotely any such claim. It is a Semitic, not Dhaarmic, idea. n/n
302. (3) A suggestion of this variety, that the Hindus are chosen by Destiny for a unique world mission, produces the false notion of their innate superiority over others.  (This is purely Abrahamic concept, extremely adharmic.) 1/n
303. Not only does this misrepresent grievously the character of classical Dhaarmic thought, which does not even know the word ‘Hindu’, but must also lead to profound untruth about other traditions of the world. 2/n
309. a). In actual fact the logical structure of Golwalkar’s argument, the argument of Hindutva, is simply fallacious. He begins by concluding that India has been a ‘Hindu’ land, 1/n

Hinduism is inclusive, Hindutva is exclusive: Speaking Tree By Ashok Vohra Hinduism, while keeping itself pegged to the Vedas, is a poignant and dynamic religion that adapts itself to the changing social, cultural, economic, scientific and technological… https://t.co/8h1FHjAGj9 https://t.co/ZJ6AncH033

The Supportive Force of the Idea of the Religion of Humanity for the Realization of a World-State https://t.co/HUCsHhe8wU

Dr. Georg Feuerstein (1947 – 2012) was a German Indologist specializing in the philosophy of Yoga. He authored over 30 books on Yoga, Tantra, & Hinduism. His "The Yoga Tradition: Its History, Literature, Philosophy and Practice" is one of the most comprehensive books on Yoga. https://t.co/bq2av5atiH

Great article on the languages and scripts of India by @SVOjha.
Concluding with recounting a charming graffiti "Sutanuka, the Devadasi! Sutanuka, the Devadasi! I, Devadina, artist from Varanasi, love her!" :) https://t.co/XlKcClNgep

In the Rasa theory of Abhinavagupta, at the centre of the wheel is the infinite potential for realizing all possible Rasas. This pure potential is termed as Śānta (translated as peace).
So Shiva in India is depicted in Śānta (meditative) nature, similar to Buddha in Buddhism.

The temple chariot consists of 24 wheels with a diameter of 9 feet & 9 inches. 8 main spokes along with 8 minor spokes and function as sundials. Spokes have carvings that depict deities, dancers, animals with no 2 spokes having identical presentations.  https://t.co/6d0DQBFDAV

Marketime: Sri Aurobindo is being stoutly opposed by agents of tradition https://t.co/PFR0hIeyVH @NathTusar
This mire must harbour the orchid and the rose,
From her blind unwilling substance must emerge
A beauty that belongs to happier spheres.
- Sri Aurobindo ("SAVITRI")

No comments:

Post a Comment